Sunday, June 28, 2009

What Does St. Paul Say — No. 1

Our consideration of the question of whether St. Paul says homosexuality is a sin, raised by feetxxl, must begin by looking at what St. Paul says explicitly on the subject. Once we have identified the passages in which he is speaking specifically about homosexual conduct, in a future post we can consider exactly what those passages mean.

I understand the following verses to fit the category of this post:
Romans 1:26-27;
1 Corinthians 6:9-10; and
1 Timothy 1:9-10.

There may be others which I have overlooked, and I'll be happy to have them called to my attention. But they need to be speaking specifically of homosexuality, not sexual immorality in general.

Here are the texts of the verses in question, with the words meaning homosexuality in bold:
Romans 1:26-27
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. — KJV
For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error. — RSV
That is why God abandoned them to degrading passions: why their women have exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural practices: and the men, in a similar fashion, too, giving up normal relations with women, are consumed with passion for each other, men doing shameful things with men and receiving in themselves due reward for their perversion. — NJB
For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were inflamed with passion for one another, men with men committing what is shameless and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error. — SP*

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves,nor covetous,nor drunkards, nor revilers,nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. — KJV
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, not idolaters, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. — RSV
Do you not realise that people who do evil will never inherit the kingdom of God? Make no mistake — the sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, the self-indulgent, sodomites, thieves, misers, drunkards, slanderers and swindlers, none of these will inherit the kingdom of God. — NJB
Don't you know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom? Don't go astray! Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor perverts, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the avaricious, not slanderers, not the greedy will inherit the kingdom of God. — SP

1 Timothy 1:9-10
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; — KJV
understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, immoral persons, sodomites, kidnappers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, — RSV
on the understanding that laws are not framed for people who are upright. On the contrary, they are for criminals and the insubordinate, for the irreligious and the wicked, for the sacrilegious and the godless; they are for people who kill their fathers or mothers and for murderers, for the promiscuous, homosexuals, kidnappers, for liars and for perjurers — and for everything else that is contrary to the sound teaching — NJB
aware that the law is not directed at a just person but at those who are lawbreakers and disobedient, impious sinners, unholy and godless, killers of their fathers and mothers, murderers, sexually immoral, men who lie with men, kidnappers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else opposes the sound teaching — SP

KJV — King James Version
RSV — Revised Standard Version
NJB — New Jerusalem Bible (A scholarly Catholic translation)
SP — Sacra Pagina (A New Testament commentary series under Catholic auspices with translations by the authors of each volume: Brendan Byrne, S.J. for Romans; Raymond F. Collins for 1 Corinthians; and Benjamin Fiore, S.J. for 1 Timothy)
* Fr. Byrne appears to have relied considerably on the RSV in making his translation.

In my next post I'll discuss how we are to understand these texts. Again, if there are additional texts we should consider, or if you can suggest other translations that should be considered to clarify the meaning, pleases comment. In the next post, we'll also have to look at a word or two in the original Greek.

12 comments:

Anonymous said...

All the text runs off the page and is unviewable.

Mirrorboy said...

It's fine on mine James. lol

I can't say that i like how we're pretty much called unnatural, shameless, shameful, unrighteous, evil-doers, unjust, etc etc. Being compared to murderers and perverts etc etc.

We're talked about like we're utterly disgusting.

That sucks. lol

naturgesetz said...

My apologies for the way the text appears. If I knew how I made it behave the way it does, I'd correct it. On my screen (and apparently on Mirrorboy's) it just shows up with line breaks in weird places. I'll see what I can do without retyping the whole darn thing.

@ Mirrorboy — one thing to bear in mind is that St. Paul is talking about conduct (I'll get into that in the next post). So far, from what I understand from your posts, you haven't actually done the stuff he's talking about.

FWIW

naturgesetz said...

Okay. I've corrected the problem, at least as the post appears on my own computer. I've lost my nice system of indentations and italics, but I won't go back and try to put the in now.

@ Mirrorboy — Hang in there until the next post, when I talk about what these things actually mean. You may not be thrilled with my understanding, but maybe it won't be quite as bad as it seems. And, as always, what I really hope is that it will give food for thought.

Mirrorboy said...

No no no no wait... Whatsisname specifically names homosexuals. I'm a homosexual. I haven't had a dick in me but i'm still a homosexual.

So i'm in the same category as murderers and i'm still talked about like i'm scum?

naturgesetz said...

But what does he mean by "homosexuals," as some people translate the Greek? I'd be breaking my rule if I told you that he's talking about action, not orientation. So all I can say is read the next post when I'll get into what he means/how we should understand it.

naturgesetz said...

I'll only add that I'm homosexual in the sense of being sexually attracted to men and not to women, but I don't think St. Paul is saying I won't inherit the kingdom of God. But I should reserve further explanation for the "Interpretation" post.

Mirrorboy said...

'So all I can say is read the next post when I'll get into what he means/how we should understand it.'

Isn't that just your interpretation though?

Could someone else not interpret it in a way that says homosexuals are unnatural and shameful?

Mirrorboy said...

lol. Anyways i find this topic interesting and shall stick around for further discussion. :P

Anonymous said...

Okay, things are displaying correctly now.

Since so much hinges on the original meaning of the words, I'll wait for that section. I don't take much stock in the English translations.

Mr. Urs said...

Mirrorboy, obviously you seem to be (so far) on the safe side. But I fear what there might come with this interpretation. All my 'conduct' has been with Catholics only. And I don't reckon I might get much credit for this kind of faithfulness.

Anonymous said...

Mirrorboy you seem to be quite anxious!
I think you should wait for the interpretation. It's highly unlikely that naturgesetz is calling himself unclean!